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GENO: How did all the juggling in the show come about? The passing routines were certainly planned, but in that one spot where Jim Dale sits there and then picks up three bean bags; was that his idea?

JACOBS: Joe Layton, the director, decided on that. He said, "Now everybody, I want a configuration of nine people up there and I want them all to juggle at this certain moment."

WITTER: It was a beautiful moment where the whole show came together. Everybody was expressing one skill all at once. Even Chari was doing it and no one ever saw her juggle before. You've seen P.T. Barnum juggling and doing all kinds of crazy things, but now all of a sudden his wife Chari can juggle and you think, "Wow," It gives everyone in the audience a wonderful feeling... then Chari disappears and she's dead

ROBERTSON: We call it "The Death Juggle." However, that's not to symbolize that juggling creates death!

GENO: Was your experience different from that of the male clowns?

NADEL: As female clowns, we lived in the showgirl's car, which was a very different thing. Women very rarely got to be in Clown Alley. As a matter of fact --- never! If anything, our dressing room was tacked onto the back of Clown Alley in another little area with some curtains.

We could go over and visit the guys in the clown car on the train, but that was it. Performance-wise, though, the barriers were broken down before I got there by Peggy Williams, the first female clown. She's still with them, by the way. By the time I got there I was able to do the same routines men did because of her.

GENO: Do any of the routines in the show change, or are they all constant?

JACOBS: They're constant unless someone is out and an understudy has to go in.

GENO: Is everybody in the show turned on to juggling? Or is is just something that some people did to get a part?

ROBERTSON: At a warm-up session everybody is juggling.

NADEL: It's neat. More people juggle now than when we were hired. Everybody could juggle a little bit then, and now we can all juggle a little bit more. In fact, we juggle so much they ran out of clubs!

I didn't do a lot of juggling with Ringling Brothers. I was mainly into slapstick comedy. When I came here to "Barnum" I learned to juggle clubs. Now I can juggle three and pass then a little bit, so it's very exciting.

GENO: How did you get involved with the circus?

NADEL: It came up after I graduated from college. I hadn't thought about being a clown at all and wasn't

brought up to run away and join the circus at all. But, someone told me about it and I decided to go. I was there for 1972 and 1973, and was only their second female clown.

GENO: Was your experience different from that of the male clowns?

NADEL: Absolutely! After having dressed in public toilets and under enough stairwells, she got her own dressing room and wardrobe box. She broke a lot of territory for me. It's quite a wonderful thing to work with the circus. It's like nothing else in the world. Although you travel the whole time, it's not like doing a road show because your room always moves with you on the train. You don't have to keep unpacking.

WITTER: One of the wonderful things about the circus is that you are doing the same routines every day and night in front of audiences. You naturally improve. It's your life as opposed to just juggling for the fun of it. You're free to concentrate on your art.

NADEL: You have to stay within your limited time period during performances, but have a chance to do a lot of improvising. You have to move from point A to point B by route C, but how you do it is your choice. That's the wonderful freedom of a clown.

GENO: Do you have any general comments for jugglers looking to get into acting and theatre? Is juggling useful?

WITTER: Juggling is useful for anybody to do anything. It's called, "getting in touch with your body to accomplish a goal," which is basic in life. I think juggling is a very important concentration and coordination exercise for any actor.

Let's face it. For anyone who's just beginning, juggling is going to be tough to learn, just like any circus art. You'll have great days of progression and then there are days when you're just maintaining; not growing but just reinforcing. Maybe some days will even be backwards days when things don't happen at all. But that's when you don't want to get depressed. Always look ahead.

I hope you really reinforce the fact that juggling should be presented as entertainment. Quite often when I have been to IJA conventions, I've seen jugglers with tremendous skill who have neglected the entertainment factor.

Juggling is a reason for being there; a technique. It's not what you do but how you do it. A juggler should have personality and character. If we could build on that and be better jugglers at the same time, wouldn't that be fascinating? It would help juggling progress farther in the public eye.

MICHAEL: I think performing is more important than any trick. The main thing is how you do it. Style counts more than tricks. Tricks by themselves can be very boring.

GENO: Just a quick survey; have all of you heard of the IJA?

(Unanimous "Yes")

WITTER: I have known about it, but never joined because I was always busy doing other things and didn't have the energies to tap. But I've been to several conventions and really enjoyed them.

(The producers of Barnum have supplied the following casting information: Jugglers wanting to be considered for a part in Barnum should know song and dance and other novelty skills. Send pictures and resume to Feuer and Ritzer, NY, NY.)