She came out as a Germanic army-type ordering the balls around. She could do some floor juggling, she could do a cascade, and her big trick was rolling a ball down her arm and then catching it under her neck.

 

What she worked up was a relationship with one ball. She had two of one color and one of the other and the odd one was always screwing up. She always conspired to drop that ball. She could basically get through about 2 1/2 throws and drop one. She went into this character piece, and the last thing was holding this ball up and shaking it and shouting at it, and it attacked her. It rolled down her arm and bit her in the neck.

 

It was the best three ball routine in the class, although there were some people who made their living as jugglers. What they did was get up and do their tricks and their regular old lines that they had mostly stolen from somebody else. That's an example that I give to people to help them find a character of their own.

 

JW: Why is it that you just use ordinary objects in your show?

 

Avner: That was a decision that I made a long time ago. It was really a moral, political decision as well as a dramatic decision. When jugglers show up with real flashy equipment, of course they can juggle it or they wouldn't have all that stuff. I was interested in the drama and the dramatic confrontation of the actor and the prop, the predicament of, "What's he gonna do? Can he possibly handle it?"

 

My slack rope act is a good example. I used to do a lot more on it. What I determined was that if I could convince the audience that I could kill myself if I tried to walk it, all I had to do is barely make it across to thrill them. Then I turned around and walked back again and did tricks. But I felt like I was just showing off. I was in a way betraying the trust that they put in my character who had convinced them that it was very difficult to walk that rope. I was saying, "Well, it's not really that hard, let me show you some more tricks."

 

If you rely on your tricks and juggle four balls, they want to see five. If you do five, they want to see six. But if you do three and stop, they're happy.

 

So, I use ordinary props in a sort of political statement. You don't need glitz and glamour and you don't need the kinds of values that Broadway brings to theatre in order to create good theatre. You don't need to spent forty bucks to see a show. Everything in my show is stuff that everybody has around the house - an old baseball bat, paper napkins, cloth napkins, little paper umbrellas, a clothes line.

 

What is special is what the character does with the props. I want the audience to look at the object and ask, "What is he doing now?" and then have them be constantly delighted because I defy their preconception of those objects. It's a constant discovery for the performer, the character, but it's also a discovery for the audience - there is a lot of life in these ordinary things.

 

JW: Is your Broadway run going to make it easier for the next guy?

 

Avner: I think so. There are three of us who have made it now - beside Michael Davis, who was the hit of "Sugar Babies" - The Karamazov Brothers, me and Penn and Teller. The K's lasted a couple of months. I lasted nine months and would have gone on but I closed it to do the movie, "Jewel of the Nile." Penn and Teller are the hit of Broadway and are coming up on a year now.

 

I really do have a feeling that the work we are doing is going to make it easier because it sets standards for the public and opens their eyes to the possibilities.

 

When the K's opened, a lot of the reviews said, "These guys are great jugglers, but what are they doing on Broadway? Juggling doesn't belong here." When I opened and when Penn and Teller opened, we didn't get any of that criticism. The K's unfortunately had to absorb it all, and in fact they do a lot more juggling than we do.

 

I think it is definitely opening up. The thing that they are calling New Vaudeville is what used to be called Variety. It is a real hot concept for theatre goers right now, so much so that I am going to be closing the season at Jacob's Pillow. That is a place that I could never have gotten into five years ago.

 

JW: What's different about New Vaudeville from the old variety shows?

 

Avner: We have taken vaudeville skills like juggling, magic and acrobatics and expanded them theatrically into a full evening show. For example, the Karamazov show is not a juggling show. They use juggling, but they use it for dramatic reasons.

 

What we do is theatre. My show isn't really a variety show, it's more a character piece. It's a Beckett play with tricks, like Emmett Kelly doing .. Waiting for Godot. "

 

It's all about waiting and how this particular character handles it.

 

JW: What do you see in the future for juggling?

 

Avner: I'm most interested in the theatrical applications of juggling. What people can do with it in terms of character rather than how many tricks they can do in three minutes or how many different objects they can manipulate. I still practice that stuff ­ I'm into technical juggling - but I haven't found any real way to use it in the show except occasionally. I've never been into that competitive side of juggling. It seems bizarre.

 

JW: What can the IJA do to help its members build their own juggling characters?

 

Avner: I think it would be lovely to see more workshops taught by people on how to develop character, how to develop a routine, how to put an act together, and not just a traditional juggling act.

 

JW: Is there anything else you'd care to pass on to the Juggler's World audience?

 

Avner: Yes. You can't succeed every time. Learn to fail magnificently!